Large Miner Pools discussion

tross

Yup thats better than banning lol

haitch

@tross I agree, spread the TB around, but what is the point of the hate for an alternate pool geared towards large miners? You'd rather see all the huge miners on a single pool? A single pool having > 50% of the mining capacity is a huge red flag for potential investors. The more active pools, the greater the diversification of mining power, the better for Burst.

tross

No actually a pool cap. Something at least till burst goes up or get more active in the real world. I am done trying to make anyone understand until I find better convincing words.

haitch

@tross I can make the pool source code available to you - feel free to implement the changes for a capacity cap, and to convince other pool owners to implement a cap. And what happens if capacity exceeds the cap on all the poolz ?

cashgold

@tross said in Large Miner Pools discussion:

I said all I want to say. Its my opinion and looks like I am beating it to death. If we would of worked to make this coin rise in value instead of how many coin we could get then burst would look even better. I hate to take sides but I see Burst Nation doing more to help this coin than this forum. I am childish because I want burst to succeed? I want everyone to get their fare share. The smallest miner is just as important as the largest miner. Han Solo I have had great chats with you and I can say I like your style but not in this way. Rich and me go back to some really good arguments so if I want to argue I go to him! He has makes some good points but now always correct.

Worse case there will be 3 pools at the top ninja, ccminer ninja clone, and Burstcoin mining club. As the rewards go down you will see more and more solo miners coming in. Large miners go where there are lots of other large miners.

For what I have invested in materials I got my ROI but what I have invested in man hours on the pool is not payable. My pool is almost non profit and was made for all miners. I will fight for my miners. Because I know its the little guy that will make or break burst not the snobby large miner stuck on their snobby ways.

thumb up for you brother.

RichBC

@tross said in Large Miner Pools discussion:

No actually a pool cap.

Ok I have seen you raise this idea several times. Please explain what sort of pool cap you would like to see and why this would be "Good for Burst"?

Also.... If you are dead set against a 24 Hr Deadline Pool why don't you raise this with the people that run and Mine on ninja? CCminer currently has only 6 Miners with > 100TB ninja has a lot more than that!

Rich

tross

I think of other coins and never seen a pool that I couldnt mine at. I think all pools should be opened to anyone and not single out miners. With the exception of mobile pool we should be able to mine anywhere. When I say cap pool size it just mean it cant have more than a certain TB total. Basically forcing large miners to go solo or find a pool they fit in. How can this help? If all the pools had large miners some more some less then everyone would earn burst evenly. This makes pools for everyone and prohibits having 51% of the hash rate. A pool cap cant be enforced anyway so its just a thought. But allowing all the pool for all the miners is better than nothing. Making another ninja pool isnt helping at all it just compounds the problem. Rich if the little guy has burst he will invest it but if he has none then he wont.

haitch

@tross How does having an alternative pools for large miners who want to pool mine make the issue worse ? Having a single pool that's attractive for large miners is worse.

RichBC

@tross So as a matter of interest if you could choose a Pool cap Today what would it be and how does that compare to the TB you have on your Pool?

I think you are still missing a fundamental point. To a first approximation over a few Months the earnings that a Miner with more than say 10TB will make is the same amount of Burst whether they Mine Solo, on a Pool that accepts Long Deadlines, or one that accepts short Deadlines.

Yes a Pool that accepts at least 50% of your Deadlines will smooth earning more quickly than one that you only make a deadline 10% of the time and will take a lot longer if you Mine Solo, but the swings and roundabouts eventually cancel out and give the same result.

I don't understand this concept of "everyone would earn burst evenly" As far as I know the primary determinant of how much Burst you will earn, if you have say 10TB plus, is not where you Mine but how many TB you have.

Rich

socalguy

Interesting read.

tross

Rich I should of worded it differently. If the pools were more balanced then earnings at one pool i would be the same at another pool. Then its up to the pool operator to make his or her pool better. An equal playing field would give burst the best chance to grow. But because people do what they want regardless of the outcome there is no room for discussion. I think a 2nd ninja pool is a bad idea and thats all I have to say.

tross

Ok I thought up another issue. Adding another pool to Haitch cluster is a disaster waiting to happen. Why have so many pools in one place?
Like Tb the pools need to be spread out otherwise they could bottle neck and cause more forking. All that hash power in one place doesnt sound decentralized to me.

RichBC

I think in practice you have answered your own question. This is not I am afraid a "level Playing Field" World, be that Burst or anything else you care to name.

@tross said in Large Miner Pools discussion:

I think a 2nd ninja pool is a bad idea and thats all I have to say.

Hear what you say but still fail to see why one "Short Deadline" pool is better than two. However happy to stop presenting arguments as this is getting very boring and repetitive....

As to haitch's infrastructure and it's ability to support another Pool, that is an entirely different subject from the OP and not one I am qualified to comment on.

Rich

tross

I have been watching this network daily since August 2016 when I made my pool. The solo miners where a lot more then and if you look now they are shrinking in size. It finally dawned on them that is they mine in a groups then rewards can be better. Where did they go? Mostly to ninja or another pool with other large miners. The problem is that another ninja pool is created and when the rest come in where will they look. Solo miners make up 14% of the burst being mined so you could guess where they will look if wanting to pool mine. ccminer pool cause if has large miners and they done have to share as much as at ninja.

It just what I did last June. I was at team pool.us but rewards where getting less and less so I tried Italian pool and made a killing. The reason being there where 50 to 80 miners not in the 100's like team us. So add the 14% and maybe a couple more from ninja then you are in the top 3. Then we have 2 ninja pools with short dl only curtailing to larger than life miners. When others see you guys getting most the blocks where will they go. We had this problem once before with ninja why do it again.

tross

Congrats your pool is moving up! When it hits rank 3 then you will see smaller pools falter. Helping consolidating all the large miners in the top 3 pools is a brilliant move! My respects earning will be a killer I just hope for your sake when people leave the burst price stays up. This isnt btc drive off the small miners and burst will die. I give burst another 6 months then will start to go down because of greed.

If 70% to 90% of the blocks go to 3 pools what will happen to the others. Why couldnt we of spread this hash rate out? Why didnt we groom this coin before milking it out. Congrats on your success hope you get what you deserve!

haitch

@tross once again I'll say it, this is not about milking the coin, it's trying to create an alternative to ninja so that the hashing power DOES get distributed more. Currently there is one pool with getting close to 51% of the hashing power of the network. If you have a better idea of how to get miners to distribute themselves over different pools, let me know - I'm open to all ideas.

Gibsalot

not sure what kind of mining power Tross pool has but i know you have been promoting it with lots of diff idea's , with the Burst bash , and asset raffle pot. the big thing i have seen is there are alot of miners that have been around for a wile that are 100% ninja style only people and they do not like the Uray / lex pool's for some reason. i know tec over the long run there should be no differance betwen the two but i can tell you that betwen the two pool styles i always earn more coin when i forge a block on a ninja pool , but i also always earn more coin from historic % when on a Lex style pool. im not sure what the differance betwen the two is and how they brake down the payouts but from my personal exp on a ninja pool when i am the winer of the block i always get 1000+ coin depending on next closest DL on tross pool and lex pool when i win a block i have never goten more than 700 coin... but when i dont forge any blocks at all witch can be a week or so at a time. on average i earn 260ish coins on ninja pools a day vs 330ish on lex pools a day. i would love to see @tross advertising his pool more on both forums and draw more people in. currently there are mass amounts of new people just geting started on the nation forums and there are only 3 pools being promoted on there forums 2 of witch are massive pools already. i do however like that they are promoting Pingofdeath's pool because its a new start up and sending people to his pool will help in spreading the mining power out.

tross

This is what I see playing out. CCminer pool is moving slowly up with 16 miners. When other large miner wake up they will say hey I can earn more there! I get this idea from experience! I went from Team US last May or June to a small pool that was also getting blocks and made a killing. So I see a migration to his pool. So yea the 51% is gone but really it isnt. Now you will have 3 ninja pools getting most of everything. You dont think my large miners will stay at my pool if I get 2 blocks a day lol

I ask for a pool cap on tb size. Make the large miners go solo or move around! I know this is a free world but what is good for burst. Wouldnt a large miner earn more if burst went up? Burst isnt so large and popular to alienate the small guy.

I say if this continues you will kill off the rest of the pools. Where are all those little and medium miners going? I suppose a welfare pool will be started for handouts lol Just watch the NW Observer you can watch it play out.

Dont do nothing haitch you guys showed me in other post I am embarrassing myself for telling the truth. 16 miners are out mining over 500 and that just 2 pools. Milking the coin = putting all large miners together with low target deadline to keep out the small guy <<<<<that is a burst promotion folks help him out (if you have more than 50tb that is)

You beat around the bush! Which mean you dont care!

tross

Ninja isnt much better but I dont see 51%. They have so 4% more than rank 2.

Why dont we just open the pools to everyone? Get rid of target deadlines!

RichBC

I thought we opened a thread for this general Pool discussion?

https://forums.burst-team.us/topic/4730/large-miner-pools-discussion

@haitch Can you please move this latest repetitive outburst from @tross to where it belongs and leave this thread for the ccminer discussion.

Thanks

Rich