pool.burst-team.us payout confusion
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@haitch Well I've done the calculations, however due to the story changing in this circus time after time I can't really use it as evidence. That being said, the results I have are still out. Sorry if you are taking this personally, but I find it amusing that BURST literally has no accountability and thus transparency. How can I ever work it out? I don't think it's ever going to be possible.
Even if I was to prove my point who is going to do anything about it? Where would I take the issue? I suppose no one really knows. Funny that.
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@BurstMiner1 @Catbref wrote the pool - I really don't know how it pays out, I only know what I have been able to see for my self.
On an earlier block i had, the deferred reward increased by my earnings on the current block + historic shares on the current block when the calculation was done.
I'm not taking it personally, but these pools have been in place for years - and if the pool operators were stealing from the clients, someone would have noticed by now. I personally earn nothing directly from the pools - all the fees go to the BurstTeam asset. In actuality, when the pools mine orphan blocks, the coin that recompenses them comes out of my own personal wallet - I'm losing money to keep the pools honest. This is not a lack of transparency - it's the person that can provide the transparency and answer your questions just doesn't seem to be part of the community anymore.
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@haitch I don't want any arguments but it shouldn't be a case of "someone" is missing so no one knows what's going on. If you can't see exactly what's happening in your own pools' accountability then I obviously have a twisted idea of what transparency really is. I look forward to @catbref returning, if it ever happens.
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@BurstMiner1 said in pool.burst-team.us payout confusion:
@haitch Well I've done the calculations, however due to the story changing in this circus time after time I can't really use it as evidence. That being said, the results I have are still out. Sorry if you are taking this personally, but I find it amusing that BURST literally has no accountability and thus transparency. How can I ever work it out? I don't think it's ever going to be possible.
Even if I was to prove my point who is going to do anything about it? Where would I take the issue? I suppose no one really knows. Funny that.
With a pool you have to trust the owner/operator. When people open a new pool, I'm surprised by the miners that just flock over to try the new "restaurant" in town to see what's on the menu. The owner.operator rarely, if ever mentions where the block transaction fees go or what the big miner "skew" is. They just clone an existing pool, possibly change the code for the 60/40 split and the big miner skew, open doors for business.
To eliminate some of these unknowns, you can always go solo. You will definitely see your wallet balance increase by exactly the block reward and the total transaction fees for the block when you forge a block.
Remember that in the long run, pool or solo, regardless of the size of your mining farm, you will get your share of the block reward and fees proportional to your farm size divided by the average net difficulty over the time you are mining. The only difference is that solo, you don't pay a pool fee and you definitely get the block transaction fees.
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@BurstMiner1 okay - all pool owners that cant exactly explain how your pool pays out - please shut it down.
The pools payouts have been reviewed repeatedly, and have found to be honest. If you don't believe the pools - go solo, theoretically you'll earn (mining pool fee percentage) more - you might just go days/weeks/months without a payment.
I cannot verify how the pool pays - therefore we need to shutdown ? I can't answer some specific questions about the pool. If that's not satisfactory to you, vote with your feet and mine solo or elsewhere.
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@haitch send me a copy of the source i will see if i can figure it out.
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@haitch You are jumping to conclusions. I never said that pools should shut down. That's something you have come up with. I did however say that I find it amusing, and still do.
@rds Thanks for the input. The reason I am chasing my suspicions up is that it has been a concern of mine before jumping in with a bunch more drives. Perhaps you are right, I should go solo once this happens, or just join ninja, something like that would probably work I will fit the criteria without issue.
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@BurstMiner1 i believe the payouts to be fair, they might not be perfect, they maybe perfect, but one thing is for sure they are not that far off from perfect in my experience.
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@iKnow0 I appreciate your thoughts and help with my concerns.
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@BurstMiner1 No, you never explicitly said that the pools should shutdown, but have repeatedly called me out for the "lack of transparency" on the pools. I've repeatedly told you that others have evaluated the pool and found it to be fair. And that I operate the pools, don't program them. I don't have the capability to change the code that others have found to be fair - so, basically, I fundamentally fail to understand your obsession with the fairness when your perceived loss is 16 Burst - 0.016 cents. This much effort for less than 2 one hundredths of a penny cents ?
You've made this massive thread over two one hundreths of a penny, while I've paid out over $1,000 in Burst to keep the pools honest.
Why am I dealing with this ?
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@haitch I'm a strong believer in the saying "Believe none of what you hear, and half of what you see". The perceived loss is a matter of perspective. If my suspicions are correct and has been going on since I started mining then no, it's not penny cents. It's a matter ~5% of my total ROI. But whatever, you can twist it however you want. I said I don't want any arguments but you persist. I must reiterate, I no longer want to discuss this. The state accountability and transparency make it a fools errand. So there you go. End of story. Cheers.
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@BurstMiner1 The source is available - anyone can check for themselves. But if the pool forks again, for transparency - you'll pay the difference this time instead of expecting me to do it?
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been looking at the source for about an hour now, think i have it tracked down
Block.cpp line 188 starts
uint64_t transaction_fees = current_shares.count() * PAYMENT_SEND_FEE; reward_to_share -= transaction_fees; std::cout << "[rewards] pool fee: " << pool_fee << ", max transaction fees: " << transaction_fees << ", reward leftover: " << reward_to_share << std::endl;in context after pool fee (plus a transaction fee for it) is subtracted (prior to this snippet) then a transaction fee is subtracted for every miner that has a share, before the miner rewards are calculated.
roughly running the math 5 percent of block reward is about 100 miner transaction fees. i doesn't look like the info is stored with the account (ie transaction fee taken from every block one), this make since assuming larger rewards and less division (so rewards sent more often) at the time it was coded.
there maybe more to this but this is the best explanation i got right now. it is late and i'm going to bed (hoping i didn't just add fuel to these flames).
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@damncourier First of all thanks for looking at the code ;D
ok so basically the pool takes 5% of the total block reward (block reward + fees collected in the block) plus it takes 1 burst per each miner with a reward in the current block, then do the division 60/40 and pay the miners to the threshold balance...
so @haitch can you please query the db to know how many addresses were paid by the pool in the block 331119 ?
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@gpedro There were 333 miners rewarded:
mysql> select count() from Rewards where blockID = 331119;
+----------+
| count() |
+----------+
| 333 |
+----------+
1 row in set (0.00 sec)
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@gpedro sorry for the late night posting which wasn't very clear.
it takes the pool fee percent (plus transaction fee (1 burst)) from the config
then from remainder takes a transaction fee for every item in the array current_shares. it looks like that is all miners that submitted on the block (haven't dug in to find out details of what is stored in array)
then the from that remainder it calculates reward payments according to bot current shares and historical shares
i mention 5% because the previous posts indicating the amount of discrepancy and my napkin maths made me think this might be it. again there is probably more to what is going on but seemed like a place to start. will do some more digging at some point.
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so @BurstMiner1 has the following shares in the block 331119 (retrieve from the screenshot):
current block: 0.0017% or 0.000017
historical shares: 0.222% or 0.00222-
2146+76 = 2222 (total payment received by pool for the block 331119)
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2222 *.98 = 2177.56 (less the pool fee of 2%)
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2177.56 - 334 = 1843.56 (1 burst for the fee of pool transaction + 333 burst for fees of transfers for miners)
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1843.56 * .6 = 1106.136 (total pool current share percentage)
- 1843.56 * .4 = 737.424 (total pool historic percentage)
- 737.424 * 0.002220 = 1.63708128 (your share of the total current share percentage)
- 1106.136 * 0.000017 = 0.018804312 (your share of the total historic share percentage)
so @BurstMiner1 should have got 0.018804312 + 1.63708128 = 1.65588559 burst (or 165588559 NQT) around block 331123 in his threshold balance...
@haitch sorry to bother you again but can you check this querys?
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blockID = "331120" and accountID = "18412210141346961862" (just to check)
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blockID = "331121" and accountID = "18412210141346961862" (just to check)
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blockID = "331122" and accountID = "18412210141346961862" (just to check)
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blockID = "331123" and accountID = "18412210141346961862" (if i am correct the payment for block 331119 of him will appear in this block with the this query)
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blockID = "331124" and accountID = "18412210141346961862" (just to make sure it is not in block 5 ;D)
ATTENTION: this calcs are for the worst case in this block because we are accounting that the pool keep 1 burst per each different account being paid and supposetly from the code only fees from current block winnings are accounted and this number should be smaller so this means that if this number is smaller the payout for miners will be a little higher
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@damncourier i was doing some math but i took into consideration your last reply in my math ;P
Is just 1 more burst relative of what i was saying right?
just to make sure i understood right...@iKnow0 your math was wrong because you were utilizing his burst winnings at that block as a percentage LOL i took the same mystake inumerous times and i was already hitting my head in the wall trying to understand why so big discrepancy then i checked the printscreen HAHAHHAA
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@gpedro They all return no records. Even though the calc is done on a lter block, it's recorded for the Block it's won on.


