Letter to 402 and the community



  • @haitch said in Letter to 402 and the community:

    @nameless said in Letter to 402 and the community:

    This is the insurance asset discussion all over again.

    Yep. It's a good idea, it's a noble idea - but the mechanics of making it work ...........

    yeah..i know man... that;s why i'm throwing the ball here and hoping to have some results. let's see what happens

    maybe the combined brain power of more of us will actually make a reasonable version of this thing...



  • It's a Utopian idea I would say, but in a truly Utopian system there is no need for fail safes as the premise is we all are working towards the greater good. The reality is there are A$$holes everywhere that want to steal your money. It could be the evil SurfBar Rootkit, it could be a scam asset who truly knows what the mask of the next swindle will be. I recommend that assets enroll in the escrow system, that's the only way to ensure that at least 50% of the funds are recoverable to investors. Here's an interesting option, I might even run it.

    IceBurst Insurance:
    You have to show me your portfolio, I'll rate each assets chance to fail based on my magic insurance scale multiple it by the percentage of assets that are known scams and charge you a monthly fee to ensure your portfolio against scams. Your portfolio as a whole will be incured for a total liability limit. Interesting concept isn't it? So the questions is; Who would pay for insurance, the answer might surprise you.

    -IceBurst



  • @IceBurst , yet again a strong argument, especially the ending... i wish i could argue with your logic, but i can't. It makes too much sense. You're pointing out a sad truth...



  • @nameless its indeed a noble idea, however I also share some of the concerns that has been expressed. I would better vote for each asset provide escrow and hook themselves up to the investors and therefore deliver. An insurance is another option, as @IceBurst said, but what if the insurance and the asset scam you? (please take no offense here @IceBurst, others may also offer this kind of asset in the future) If something like this happens the victim could end up loosing double, however if the insurance (as an asset itself) is escrowed, then it would be another story. So long story short, I am for the escrow option :)



  • @vExact , yeah... the deeper we dig into this, the more we start to come to the conclusion that escrow is the only true solution.

    Hopeless romantic that i am, i'm still hoping there is also another way... fucked if i know



  • @nameless said in Letter to 402 and the community:

    Right now, 402 pays out roughly 110k BURST each day

    Is this in an internal number? Because I have some 402 share and have not receive any payment.




  • admin

    @IceBurst I already have an escrow system for assets that want to use it. Socal does, BenBurst does, ccMiner is using it - slightly differently, a new asset from potkas is using it. I'd encourage all asset issuers to look into using it.



  • @nameless While im a bit against it, and even after i had been scammed myself. As i think it was my fault to believe to the news asset! And it was pretty much a big portion of my burst in that asset! Im not mining for that long, so not that big amount. But it did hurt me enough. Im afraid it would make people less cautious and easier to scam if we do something like this. But if we want to do it, then i would recommend to first figure out, how to find that old transactions! And only add people to this asset if they bought the scam asset prior to the price drop after it become a possible scam! I would recommend this because there is still a lot of people buying news asset. They buy it for fraction of its price! Even after it is like 90% sure its a scam now! But they believe the large possible profit over waits the small amount of lost burst! This way we could even see if someone get the asset transferred after the scam happened! So he is possibly a new account or a friend of the scammer! So if we figure out this. And its guaranteed, that the scammer and those who risked knowing that is probably a scam wont get in to it. I would agree to the idea holding some of the asset shares myself and shortly should get more for newsilver .



  • @haitch said in Letter to 402 and the community:

    @IceBurst I already have an escrow system for assets that want to use it. Socal does, BenBurst does, ccMiner is using it - slightly differently, a new asset from potkas is using it. I'd encourage all asset issuers to look into using it.

    Perhaps this thread was needed to yet again point out that we have this system. I aggree, more should consider it.

    I will not be using it, because my layers of security work different. I have methods of FULL LIQUIDATION set in place. But that's me ... those who don't have a fail-safe system like mine should consider escrow.



  • @haitch said in Letter to 402 and the community:

    @IceBurst I already have an escrow system for assets that want to use it. Socal does, BenBurst does, ccMiner is using it - slightly differently, a new asset from potkas is using it. I'd encourage all asset issuers to look into using it.

    Sorry maybe I wasn't clear. I am aware of the escrow system you run and I encourage new asset owners to enroll for building trust to the community and securing their investors funds.

    The Insurance Asset would be a new concept, could be very painful to manage.

    -IceBurst



  • @IceBurst said in Letter to 402 and the community:

    The Insurance Asset would be a new concept, could be very painful to manage.

    -IceBurst

    Oh it would be a complete and utter pain in the ass, and as many ideas i have to contribute to refining it, i realize none of us have the time to run such a thing. Unless someone would be paid a ''full time'' salary for managing such a thing, a perfect version will never exist. Sad truth, but as you said , who will pay for such a thing?

    Bottom line... escrow is the easy and safe-ish way to do it... we all know it



  • @IceBurst said in Letter to 402 and the community:

    @nameless

    To be honest I'm against it and here's why. Who forked over cash to all of the people who were swindled by the likes of "Enron" type. No one, it's buyer beware. I believe the Crypto world on whole makes poor decisions for the following reasons:

    1. The average age is much lower than the average age of a working professional, they have not had the "hard" life experiences that create a cautious person.
    2. Crypto isn't "real" money, I clicked on some faucets, got some BTC, bought some Burst, lets get some assets and double down! It's almost too easy compared to the new to the work force individual that works 4 hours after school 3 days a week at the neighborhood burger joint to make $8 an hour.
    3. Understanding what makes senses isn't always easy. People don't know how to evaluate a new asset, understand the full concept or they were not provided enough details and invested anyways.

    Just my 2 Burst
    -IceBurst

    this



  • Oh man... so many good arguments against this...

    But it's true... some have lost a ton, some have lost a bit. As is real life, i guess there is no ''magical rescue plan'' to bail people out. I just have to face it. We all do...

    @haitch , i think we can lock this thread down. Although very young, i highly doubt anyone will give me any ''pro'' arguments for it other that it's a well-intentioned attempt of a bail-out.


  • admin

    @nameless I'll let the discussion continue, someone may have the solution we're missing.



  • @nameless perhaps we cold do your proposal fo ra while, say a couple of months or more (don't know), so a contribution can be made to the ones who have been already scammed. HOWEVER, as a good practice it is quite recomended to the asset issuers if they want to build trust to use the escrow feature, and if people want to invest in those assets without it, it will be done under their own risks...



  • I'm not a 402 investor but I think a temporary relief fund could be enacted but what needs to happen the most is a minimum escrow amount (say 50%) needs to be mandatory to get ID Verified and to advertise on these forums you must be ID Verified that way the most that can be lost is 50% which still sucks but it's way better than losing 100%



  • @nameless We talked of this awhile back.
    Just looking at it from the perspective of pulling all those scam and failed assets off the market into mainly one address and kinda burning them letting the deserving assets breath.
    I remember even discussing posting a "asset closed" message in the chain....



  • @Iceburst @nameless i like very much the insurance asset concept and if it pays a full time job i can work for it since i am unnemployed and i can work much cheaper than people in a lot of other countries (600-700€ would be a reasonable job in my country) hehehe

    I think @nameless plan can work out for assets that stay for a long time in the community and that scammed most of the people in the community like NEWS did, for assets that have a big risk like many new assets this would not be applied...

    So basically who runs this asset would make an announcement and say that Asset X was accepted to this plan, everyone that wish to receive something in return send their shares of Asset X to address BURST-YYYY-YYYY-YYYY, then the manager of this plan will check each account and if it has ties to the known scammer(s) accounts it send the correct amount of this plan asset back to the Asset Y scammed person... If this works like that everything is extremelly verified and it should have a good discussion before announce any new assets in the @nameless plan asset thread for all of us get time to help gather and share known informations needed like linked accounts to the scammer, if it's worth to help the asset scammed people due to the risk it had to the community, percentage of the community scammed, total amount of funds lost, etc...

    Although i think this asset should not pay dividends @nameless... IMHO it should accumulate the 1% transfers from 402 asset and then put a buyback order on AE with the amount in the fund at a given time, all the other people that didn't sold at that time wait for the next 402 divy being paid out and the new buyorder be putted in place... This working together with the freemarket will make people to lower the price per share if they want to get out quick or allow for people to still make money with this asset because if there is too much people wishing to get out fast the price of this asset will decrease and when large part of the holders is waiting for the price to come up and sell, so the initial price per asset will be the maximum price per share and the asset will not pay dividends, just held value...

    If people want to donate to this cause @nameless can even put this money together with 402 funds and trade with it making profit that will add to the 1% from 402 and other assets than could want to do the same to help and establish a ground breaking social security system in the community xD

    I like the idea @IceBurst gave too and i think that something like that should defenetly exist in a place so risky as the cryptocurrencies world but for that to happen i believe it should be tied to a real life company and the manager of the insurance should have his identity public to establish a good trust in all the community...

    I am a ex-402 owner and a future one too since i am holder of Newsilver and am holder of NEWS too as most of this community so here are my 100 cents ;P



  • @nameless please give this man (@gpedro) a cookie!


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