Renting Space For Mining

haitch

@daWallet Drive price and electricity cost don't come into it - it's all about cost per capacity.

a storage provider will look at the calculator and see I can X per TB - why would I sell for less than that?

a storage buyer will look at the calculator and see I can earn X per TB - why would I buy for more than that?

Unless the storage owner has no interest in mining the storage themselves, there is never an incentive to sell the space - no one will be willing to pay more than you can earn with the space yourself.

Gibsalot

@haitch thats why i never understood cloud mining in the first place... why would the company not just mine for the coin them selfs and bank ... and how could they afford to offer hash power for less than someone can just buy on there own and keep. resale when finished.

superskid

@Gibsalot It's all about risk aversion. Sure you COULD mine it all yourself and possibly make more, but you could also never ROI on your investment. Cloud mining lets you lock in profit even if it may not be the most possible. It's a win-win.

Gibsalot

@superskid i guess looking at it that way , just never considered it from that point of view

superskid

@Gibsalot It's same reason I decided to offer an asset. I have over 300TB mining, have another 600TB on the way, so to piece some of it off made sense to me.

haitch

@superskid How is it win-win? I won't sell it for less than it could potentially earn, you're not going to buy it for more than it could potentially earn -You won't buy at the rate I want, I won't sell at the rate you want.

superskid

I disagree with that. If a am reasonably confident it will earn X, and X-10% is still profitable I will sell it for X-10% to lock it in. And you as a buyer if you're a smaller farm might be able to buy a TB cheaper, then having to invest a bunch of money into other mining hardware which will creep up your cost per TB. If you only want to mine 10TB buying a vid card, etc.. hardly worth it compared to just buying.

IceBurst

@haitch said in Renting Space For Mining:

@superskid How is it win-win? I won't sell it for less than it could potentially earn, you're not going to buy it for more than it could potentially earn -You won't buy at the rate I want, I won't sell at the rate you want.

I think what may be over looked is potentially I can not afford to buy 10TB of my own, but I could afford to rent 10TB for lets say a week to a month and get some coins. However why not just buy it on the exchange?

-IceBurst

superskid

@IceBurst Exchange is an option, but if you believe in the coin and think the price could go up you would be better off buying TB that gives you constant BURST then risking every week how much you can afford.

vier23

@haitch I think what @superskid means is that you could sell at at a higher rate and there may still be people who would want to buy at that rate for various reasons (i.e., if electricity/HDDs are more expensive, like @daWallet mentioned). Therefore, it would be a win-win situation. Not everyone can invest in HDDs and not everyone is tech savvy enough/have the time and patience to set up a mining rig - that's why cloud mining is still a thing.

haitch

@vier23 I agree to sell some of my storage, look at the earnings calculator, and that tell me I should earn X burst. Because of the downtime while I replot for the buyer - I'll sell it at X + 10%. The buyer earns the expected amount X - they paid 10% of X for losing money.

The model simply doesn't work unless either the storage owner has no interest in utilizing their capacity for themselves, or the buyer is an idiot. There is no rational reason for selling at less than it's potential value, and there is no rational reason for buying at higher than potential earnings.

haitch

@vier23 I have the capacity to earn on average $1. To make it worthwhile to me - I'm going to sell that capacity for $1.10. The buyer can expect to earn $1, but will pay $1.10 for that capacity. See the problem ?

superskid

@haitch said in Renting Space For Mining:

@vier23 I agree to sell some of my storage, look at the earnings calculator, and that tell me I should earn X burst. Because of the downtime while I replot for the buyer - I'll sell it at X + 10%. The buyer earns the expected amount X - they paid 10% of X for losing money.

The model simply doesn't work unless either the storage owner has no interest in utilizing their capacity for themselves, or the buyer is an idiot. There is no rational reason for selling at less than it's potential value, and there is no rational reason for buying at higher than potential earnings.

That calculator does not know for sure how fast the network will grow. So if I take 10% less today it could end up being more if everyone starts throwing more TB to it. There is just no way to predict the future but one thing is for sure, you can't go broke locking in a profit, even if it't not the most in a perfect scenario.

superskid

@haitch said in Renting Space For Mining:

@vier23 I have the capacity to earn on average $1. To make it worthwhile to me - I'm going to sell that capacity for $1.10. The buyer can expect to earn $1, but will pay $1.10 for that capacity. See the problem ?

Here is where I disagree, I am confident I am adding TB for WAY below most people, because of that I would take the $0.90 let the buyer have the $1.00 and add more TB at lets say $0.30 when others are adding them for $0.60 (last 2 numbers totally hypothetically but the makes the point)

haitch

okay - I have somewhere between 250 and 300TB. I'll rent them out at 80 Burst/TB/day. Price is variable on Burst pricing.

superskid

@haitch LOL, you're a long term guy.

My asset is selling TB for $35 a TB and that INCLUDES all the power, hardware, and maintenance fees to run it. And it locks in that amount of storage if a drive ever goes down. I do think that is cheaper than most people can do it themselves for.

I think I am going to start selling and shipping drives for people that just like doing it themselves and don't want to do the asset. I'm thinking I will sell for $30USD a TB plus shipping.

But if anyone else wants the long term game and doesn't want to buy and ship I will sell blocks of 100TB for $27 USD a TB

haitch

@superskid Good luck with your asset. But as an american new home influenced capitalist - why would I sell my capacity for less than I can earn from it?

superskid

@haitch said in Renting Space For Mining:

@superskid Good luck with your asset. But as an american new home influenced capitalist - why would I sell my capacity for less than I can earn from it?

Don't, buy more drives from me. Putting up a marketplace thread now, just doing some weights and measurements of different drive packages.

gpedro

@haitch the only thing in renting the space is that as mining is based on luck, you can earn the expected or not and if you rent you will earn the amount you ask every day, so it's more stable income... example:
You expect to receive 1$ per day mining but if you got unlucky you can earn just 0.1$, also if you got lucky you can earn 3-4$ too, so it's a gamble... Now let's say you rent at 0.9$ to someone, that way you will receive 0.9$ per day everytime they are rented what makes it more stable and you loose the risk by transfering all the risk for who is renting it for you and they will take the risk for just 10% of expected profit, so it's kind of risk management?!

RichBC

@gpedro At the end of the day it has to be a zero sum game and in any reasonable run of time the main determinant of what you earn is how many TB do you have.

So if the Renter makes more than the "Going Rate" then the Owner makes less and if the Owner makes more than the "Going Rate" the Renter makes less.

In practice as the Owner is calling the shots he would be stupid to make less than the going rate so it's always has to be the Renter that looses out....

Perhaps to simplistic a view, but it's my experience of any sort of Miner Rental.

Rich